?

Log in

No account? Create an account

Previous Entry | Next Entry


Richie at Crimitism has hit another nail in the head with his post on "Nice Guys", and the webcomic he parsed for the post.  I encourage people to read and enjoy; it's one of the reasons I link to his blog in my sidebar (links list updated every now and then - check it out!).

One thing that guys need to understand is that the "nice guy" is not nice.  He's a creep, a whiny, sex-obsessed, condescending asshole who can't understand that the reason he never gets laid is because he's hiding his desire to get laid under a facade of "I respect women!", and it's so fake it screams "stalker!" to every girl with an ounce of sense in her*.  Sure, girls like bad boys and it sometimes sucks (my own particular bad boy is awesome though, thankyewverymuch), but nice guys need to stop fooling themselves that they're a better alternative, because frequently, they're just the flip side of the "women are not worth anything except as sex objects" Pickup Artist coin.

No, really - ask a girl about a self-professed "nice guy", and she'll say "well, he's a nice guy, but - " and that "but" tells you all you need to know.  She's trying not to be a bitch about someone who leaves her completely cold, not because he's not interesting enough, but because he gives off a bad vibe that even if she can't put it into words, tells her that dating this guy will be bad news.

If she wants a stalker, on the other hand - most stalkers think of themselves as NGs, did you know that?  They tell the object of their stalking that they love them, will take care of them, and all sorts of icky stuff, but their fantasy is missing the key component in any real relationship - the permission of the woman they're stalking.  Yet, when asked, they protest that they love the object of their fascination, and that if she only got to know him, they'd totes fall in love and live happily ever after (until he kills her for trying to leave him).

Eeek.

NGs , though not stalkers (mostly) give off a similar vibe, in that the interest of the woman they want to date is massively secondary to their interest in dating her.  Again, this really becomes obvious pretty quickly - the NG doesn't even accord his "love interest" the intelligence to realize he thinks this way, and he never cottons on to the fact that she keeps him at arm's length as "just a friend" because she's not interested at all, but she's too nice to say GTFO.  Instead, he thinks she's just too dumb to see what a great guy he is, and if he only hangs around enough, she'll totes see that, and they'll live happily ever after, like it's the movies, man.  God, women are so stupid!  Why don't they see what a Nice Guy he is?!.

(This "too nice to say no" phenomenon is a separate problem that women have, being deeply conditioned to be kind to everyone, not helped at all by the fact that NGs, when finally rebuffed, will show their true colours and tell her what a bitch she is because she said no [reinforcing the "must ne nice to everyone!" programming].  Because, of course, if she knew what was good for her, she'd absolutely say yes to this guy who just called her a bitch for daring to refuse him.)

(totes.)

Because it's not, nor is it ever, about what the woman wants, it's only about what the NG wants.  All those "nice" things he says he does?  They're just manipulation, building up a debt to him that can only be repaid with sex, and we're bitches if we say no.  Because men are owed sex, somehow.  Because women shouldn't be allowed to refuse a man who wants them.  Which leads to the creepy manipulative behaviour that NGs pull out once the chips are down.

"Romantic" movies frequently perpetuate this idea - most specifically in the trope that when a girl turns a guy down, she just needs a little "persuasion" to see what a great guy he is.  In the real world, this is called stalking.  It only works in the movies, and the NG in the movies is a whiny little ass who ends up with a gorgeous girl who doesn't deserve to be stuck bywith a loser like him only because whiny little NGs write, direct, and most importantly, produce most of these movies (Suck it, Judd Apatow). 

For God's sake - most women given a choice between the two, will pick a jerk over the nice guy, because at least the jerk will be more fun than a damp cold flannel.  But given an honest choice?  Women will almost always go for the man who treats them like a real, live human being, not a sex doll. 

But that's a lesson the NG seems to have skipped.  
 

*To clarify:  I am not blaming any woman who got mixed up with a NG and got the worst end of it.  Some of them are sneakier than others, and it's not any woman's fault that she got deceived by a slimeball.

*To clarify a bit further, just in case anyone goes back through the archives and reads this with the wrong end of their stick, I am not referring to men who are genuinely nice, I'm talking about the "Nice Guy", as in (referenced above) "He's a nice guy, but...".  Need further clarification?  Read the Crimitism post.

Tags:

Comments

thornbury
Apr. 21st, 2009 08:58 pm (UTC)
Thank God I'm not dating...
So, we can't be nice guys, because most women given a choice between the two, will pick a jerk over the nice guy. However, we also can't be the kind of guy who appreciates the Open Source Boob thing (whatever that was). So, nice guys are stalkers who only want sex, and jerks are too forward with women.

No, seriously... I'm seeing a very slim margin between being too nice (stalker) and being too much of a jerk (chauvinistic pig). I don't understand.

Can one be a "nice guy" and really, you know, be a nice guy? One who will move the earth for a woman, but sadly, be let down by the same woman to try and impress the next one?

Again, I'm not dating (I have my wife! I win! Poor woman.) and I'm assuredly not a "nice guy". These are all good, because trying to follow along in my program is leaving me confused.
attack_laurel
Apr. 21st, 2009 10:47 pm (UTC)
Re: Thank God I'm not dating...
You're missing the point, sweetie. These are all extremes, just like women have to be somewhere in between "domineering harpy" and "clinging limpet who centers their entire being around a man - any man". Men who use "But I'm a Nice Guy!" to justify creepy manipulative behaviour, or who regard every woman as a potential sex object and nothing more - ever - are not "nice".

I'm pointing out the character who hides behind a particular facade, so that women don't fall prey to his blandishments. As other people have said, at least a jerk is honest, and when that's all you're looking for, sex with a jerk is better than sex with a clingy child. Just like men are known for having sex with a psycho bitch because she's cute (and they do).

And honestly, the field is pretty wide between creepy "nice guy" and "boob-groping neanderthal". If you can't see that, ask Jake; I'm sure she'll be happy to point out the vast difference between normal, cool guy behaviour, and creepy stalker.

Life is full of romantic disappointments - men and women can go for years (and marriages) before they find their ideal partner, and sometimes, they are too screwed up within theselves to see their relationship sabotaging. It's a crapshoot, but it doesn't benefit anyone to fall back on creepy manipulative games.
thornbury
Apr. 21st, 2009 11:21 pm (UTC)
Re: Thank God I'm not dating...
Yeah, I got it when I read Catherine's comment, but you dumped a big ol' pile of "duh" on me. ;-) ;-)

I was starting to get the feeling of "nice guys are bad" vice "sanctimonious victims who are misunderstood are bad". I guess I never tried to play the "creepy nice guy card" -- I went straight from "nice guy who will give away money so my friend can take out that girl I have a crush on" to "unapologetic arrogant bastard with enough charisma to make it tolerable to take shit from me".

Or, something like that. :-) Hey, that makes me an honest jerk! Woohoo!

But seriously, thanks for spelling it out for me, and for not succumbing to what had to have been a desire to use really small words. ;-)

Latest Month

April 2017
S M T W T F S
      1
2345678
9101112131415
16171819202122
23242526272829
30      

Tags

Powered by LiveJournal.com