Damn I think I've missed this somehow. I think all my boyfriends of the past qualify for the "jerk" category wherein they really didn't care for me the relationship was all about them. At least two of them had no respect for boundaries and one of them still had to be smacked with a rolled up newspaper even years after we had broke up.

I have had stalkers though most of those were in my teens. They were usually guys in their 30's or older who took a completely inappropriate interest in my 17 year old self. The worse scenario happened with I was 15 (I worked in a school during the summer and the Janitorial guys would NOT leave me alone...the guys in the office were pretty bad too....I hated coming to work). The trouble was that I didn't look like a teenager and I often was mistaken for being in my 20's when I was a teenager. Still that did not give them the right to treat or act that way toward me. I had no idea of how to deal with it back then and I think it's left me with "bad vision," where it comes to guys and dating. Now I literally have no clue when a guy is trying to flirt with me if he's being subtle (I'm Captain Oblivious) and I only notice when they are being inappriately over the top....and then I get creeped out and want to get away from them. I also have no idea how to flirt and I'm afraid to show interest because I'm afraid they will turn into the Jerks who used to harrass me when I was a teenager. (hope that wasn't TMI) I can and do flirt with guys I know and I am friends with because I've generally known them long enough to feel "safe," with them....but anyways

Edited at 2009-04-21 09:09 pm (UTC)

On that nice guy/bad boy thing-- it's not that I'm really after someone bad. I like genuinely kind and decent men as well as anyone does. It's just that given the choice of passive-aggressive and regular aggressive... well, I prefer dealing with someone who doesn't try to guilt trip me.

My husband is a nice guy. I'm lucky. My ex was a Nice Guy. This is why he's an ex.
Unfortunately, giving the flip side of the coin; the girl who dates a nice guy for a while, pines over a Jerk, and breaks up with nice guy in order to sleep with Jerk (or does it without breaking up first), and then gets upset when the nice guy doesn't want her back. (Which describes my ex-husband's last marriage.) Or they can string desperate nice guy along when they want a ride, someone to wash the dog, or an endless amount of other "favors"... and then laugh about it behind nice guy's back to their girlfriends.
Some men are Nice Guys with an Agenda, and some women repeatedly treat not very intelligent nice guys like emotional tampons.
Both sexes have members that are scum.

I LOVE your Nice Guy posts and this post linked to (and the comic omg) are AMAZING. The webcomic is vomit-worthy, holy crap. I just... wow.

Seriously, I see them often enough just as friend-of-friends and there's no way you could exaggerate the crap they come up with. "Oh your boyfriend is deployed I am here for you do you want me to come over oh I had the worst time with this girl you really should let me come over so you can comfort me and I can comfort you and --" AAAUGH. They belong under a bus.

It's slimeballs like that, that make me reserve all my compliments when I see a pretty lady. :( Because I really, really just want to give a compliment. But I'm terrified that they'll assume I'm mocking them or being an ass or that I want something.

All I can do is try really hard to be truly courtly, and hope people notice, right? :)

wait... there's nice guys in his movies?

There's a guy at work who currently fits snugly in the pigeonhole of 'geeky social outcast' because he has some boundary/interaction issues, only ever talks about geek subjects (WoW, Star Trek, etc) and goes out of his way to be a nice guy.

The problem is that the more he comes over to talk to me (yay fellow geek!), the more he gives me the odd Nice Guy vibes. And I can't figure out if the feel-bad bit after each encounter is because he's rubbing me the wrong way (he's mentioned some family problems that explain his dim view of women at times...) or because I just feel bad that I'm one of two people who WILL talk to him. And then it circles into that programmed-to-be-nice bit and blurs the line between common interests/pleasant conversation and creepy boundary issues even more. Guh.

Even tho I'm late to this party, I have a couple pence to add to the pile.

First, I officially give myself permission to say to the guy at the library who inserts "why don't girls ever like nice guys?" into every conversation he has: "They do like nice guys, but you are not actually nice. Nice doesn't include creepy manipulative conversations with strangers, or the totally sexist arguments you have with everyone gullible enough to have a conversation with you. The reason women get mad when you announce to them that all women only like jerks is because it is a lie, and the reason none of them want to go out with you is that it seems terribly obvious to anyone with half a brain that if they were to sit down and fill the space you label "Girlfriend", you would immediately inject them with horse tranquilizer and mummify them in bandaging plaster, and truthfully, none of us really wants to live out a CSI serial killer plot."

I not only give myself permission to say it, I give myself permission to say it even if he starts spouting this crap to someone other than myself, especially when I see them freezing up into a "I have to keep smiling or this lunatic might hurt me" fake grin, because all they did was say "hey how's it going?" and ended up in Creepyville.



hmmm....

I thought I had a second point to make, but I think overly discriptive prose pushed it right out of my head. But mega-thanks for starting this thread which both clarified my feelings and coaxed some vagues thoughts into specific plans. (I love you and your commenters for soooo many more reasons, too.)

Yes, I am a NG so obviously I'm only concerned about a "roll in the hay" and care nothing about intelligent conversation, walks in the park or just being with someone. I'm obviously so screwed up that I DO make the "badboys" look special... never mind that 6-12 months later I get e-mails saying "I screwed up, I want you back" (yes, it has happened).

It seems the only ladies who are attracted to me have "issues" (we ALL have baggage of some sort, but don't wave it around like a blinking flag or badge of honor). I'm more than willing to help you through stuff as it sometimes helps me work through my own problems, but quit waving stuff in my face if you have no intention of trying understand what is or how you might reconcile it.

But all of that is a moot point as I have take myself off the meat market... permanently! I'm sure many of you will criticize me for my words, but it's how I feel. You don't like it? Fine. I've survived 49 years by myself... what's another 49?

NGWA
Nice Guy With Attitude

I would just like to state for the record that I really encourage anyone who gets the nice-guy vibes from someone to STAY AWAY.

The Gift of Fear is a good book to read, as well, and not wrong about listening to instincts.